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From: First Apostle James <james@antichrist.net> 
To: jamesw@some-ISP.com 
Cc: james@antichrist.net 
Subject: Re: The Greater Scientist... 
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:28:00 -0600 
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, James W wrote:

> Dear James,
> 
> I've come across your website by mistake while I was on my way towards
> other sites with google, but stopped to see your sites contents. With
> all due respect, I am left to wonder why you reject the existance of
> God...you have thoroughly pointed out why you reject the existance of
> Jesus, and it's been noted...even without the colorful upside-down
> crosses sported on your main page...
> 
> But I am left to wonder why it is that God is not seen by you as the
> greatest scientist and creator of all; to a level humanity has not
> experienced?

        Because gods are not real, they are mere wishful thinking, as you are
about to explain below.

> I understand your role as a scientist; because I share it. But if I
> may express my side I would be most appreciative of your hearing me
> out.
> 
> If I could offer proof that there may be a God unseen...
> 
> We know atoms exist, though we cannot see them. Those without an
> electron microscope might reject our proof though, only because they
> didn't get the chance to see what we saw with our advanced tools.

        You just explained why god doesn't exist.  Years ago, when man first
began practicing surgery, the surgeons did not wash their hands between
patients.  The reason why was because they didn't yet know that unseen germs are
what caused infection.  Today, we look back at those ignorant surgeons and
think of them as barbarians.  Someday in the future, people will look back upon
people such as yourself and think the same thing, that "someday" when we really
do know for sure where the universe came from and how it was formed.

        How do the presents get under the tree?  Santa Clause brings them! 
Today we know that this simplistic answer is false.  Where did life and the
universe come from?  God created it all.  We should assume by example that this
simplistic explanation, coined by ancient ignorant (by todays standards)
barbarians at the dawn of civilization, to be false.  Just as you said above,
people without electron microscopes don't know atoms exist.  Can't you religious
[so-called] Scientists just accept the phrase "we don't know"?  Why must you
attribute a child-like simplistic answer "god made it" to anything as yet
unknown?  Don't you realize that before man knew what germs were, they
attributed disease to "gods will" or possibly "the work of the devil"?  Today
we LAUGH at such lunacy, just as hopefully, someday in the distant future,
people will laugh at your explanation for the origins of life and the universe.

> All I want is to know why you personally feel the way you do about
> Christians and God in general. I've read the website, but I would
> rather hear it from the heart of the person who wrote it...just a
> freely spoken reply of well placed emotion on top of the intelligence
> you already possess.

        Because unlike you, I am a REAL Scientist, when I know something is
true, I say so (and only if I have proof which can be repeated by anyone given
the proper tools).  When I don't know something, I say I do not know, but am
working to find out, I never attribute mythical gods to any equation.  You know
I am correct, you were trained in critical objective thinking, trained to be
skeptical, but only IF you are as you claim, an actual Scientist.

        Science could advance at a much quicker rate IF we could get
religionists and ethicists OUT of it.  Examples; cloning and stem cell research.

James

     


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From: First Apostle James <james@antichrist.net> 
To: James W <jamesw@some-ISP.com> 
Cc: james@antichrist.net 
Subject: Re: The Greater Scientist... 
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:52:52 -0600 
On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, James W wrote:
> 
> *Sorry for the late reply; out of town to business summons me
> occasionally.

        I understand, I don't hold anyones feet in the fire, in fact, typically
I don't get more than one email from most people.  :o)

> --- First Apostle James <james@antichrist.net> wrote:
> >surgeons and think of them as barbarians.  Someday in the future, 
> >people will look back upon people such as yourself and think the same
> >thing, that "someday" when we really do know for sure where the
> >universe came from and how it was formed.
> 
> Well, I hope the answers are discovered. It's frustrating to not know,
> especially for those who empower themselves with knowledge to drive
> their ambitions. We will eventually know, I'm sure, with time and much
> work. However, it still does not exclude the possiblity that a higher
> being created this entire universe as a controlled test for their
> experiment(s). I suppose we shall see...

        We will eventually have more and more answers, we will never answer
every question, because as a Scientist you know, each answer only raises more
and more questions (as it should).  :o)  My only point is that YOU should not,
as a scientist, attribute mythical gods, invented at the dawn of civilization
by barbarians, to answer any questions we as yet don't have the answers to.

> >     How do the presents get under the tree?  Santa Clause brings them! 
> >Today we know that this simplistic answer is false.
> 
> I know better than to use my beliefs as a crutch, or just say 'because
> God did it'. There is a reason for everything, and an answer to be
> found for the dilligent who are merciless with their pursuit of it.

        If there is a reason for everything, then why believe in god(s)?

> I don't just use the idea of God simplistically, not even slightly. I
> attribute great complexity, science, and much of what we do know now
> from our own existing work to the greatness yet to come. Even still, I
> see our accomplishments marginal by comparison to His works, just as

        There you go again, attributing that which you are unable to
comprehend, or unwilling to explore, to mythical gods!  Can't you be as
rational as I am, and draw the parallel between the past, when sick people were
stricken by satan, and today, merely infected with parasitic lifeforms (germs)?

        If there was a god, and he truly loved us, why would he create disease
germs, disease viruses (aids, smallpox, polio) which has harmed MANY!  Why
would god create intestinal worms (parasites)?  As a Scientist, I am often
asked to make hypothesis, and the one I am making is that the indications
clearly show, that gods are nothing but wishful thinking.

> you pointed out, that today's surgeons may call those of the past
> barbarians...are work may look downright crude and simplistic to God,
> though it is extraordinarily complex for us.

        Again, you are fabricating something in your mind to comprehend that
which you are unable to comprehend.  My measured IQ is 232 (Cattell) so there
is very little that seems (or is) incomprehensible to me.  Perhaps that's an
advantage to me, and a disadvantage to you.  Perhaps if I was lacking in my
ability to reason, I too would attribute all that confused me to the will of
gods.  Thankfully, that is not the case.  :o)

> If it weren't for my own awareness of God, bestowed upon me during a
> time when I was outright skeptical of His existance, I would not use
> God's existance so freely, and would probably agree with your
> statement.

        Did you experience a self-induced hypnotic event, invoked at a period
of great stress in your life, or perhaps a misfiring in your brain (schizotypal
event) which is the basis for your religious beLIEfs?  When you "drop acid" and
"see god" is that really god or just a hallucination?  When you have a
spontaneous hallucination, caused by disease or stress, is that somehow real?

> >Today
> >we LAUGH at such lunacy, just as hopefully, someday in the distant future,
> >people will laugh at your explanation for the origins of life and the
> >universe.
> 
> The thing is though...I have not explained how I see the origins of
> life or the universe to anyone, so it is innacurate to assume you know
> my theory before it is presented.

        I assume at a time of great stress, you broke down and hallucinated
some [presumed to be] external force, which you interpreted as a deity.  This is
quite common in humans.  In fact, there is much to indicate that MOST religions
are created by untreated schizophrenics.  All of the new religions are at least.

> Many Christians may see it differently than I do, the thumpers may
> even call me a 'false prophet', as much of what I believe is based
> with sound logic NOT fanatical claims to control others.

        Here on antichrist dot net, my friend David, an untreated schizophrenic,
used to talk about his special interpretations of the bible.  It was unique,
but not at all unlike the interpretations of OTHER schizophrenics.  :o)

> A one-belief-structure-fits-all approach is seldom effective for
> classification. Adaptive methods and heuristic analysis will almost
> always yield greater performance for end results. As a scientist you
> should know this.

        As a Scientist, I don't have beLIEfs, I have KNOWLEDGE.  I don't say "I
believe", I either say "I know" or "I do not know".  Anything else, and I am
not a Scientist, I am a shamen.

> >     Because unlike you, I am a REAL Scientist,
> 
> I've yet to live a day out of my life as a fake one lol. :P

        Take god out of the equation then, because with all the science we now
master, god is not a factor AT ALL in ANY OF IT!  To presume god(s) are a
factor in the "yet unknown" is just bad hypothesizing.  Gods do not cause
disease, nor cure disease, so hypothesize that gods did not create the
universe.  Take from what you know, to hypothesize about what you do not.
           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> >when I know something is
> >true, I say so (and only if I have proof which can be repeated by anyone given
> >the proper tools).  When I don't know something, I say I do not know, but am
> >working to find out, I never attribute mythical gods to any equation.
> 
> That is right, and I respect that. Likewise, I would do the same if I
> were not presented with information to act on otherwise.

        This is what makes you a defective Scientist.  I don't mean to offend
you, but if you continue to cling on to myths created in lieu of Science at the
dawn of civilization, then you are doomed to be an inadequate Scientist.

> Anyone who could not do the above I would not consider to be a real
> scientist worthy of any merit. I was perhaps given an unfair advantage
> over others to be given the proof I have today of God; it is proof
> that only applies and can be tested with my own case. I won't lie to
> you and tell you you must believe me, because as a scientist that is
> simply not good enough.

        Ok, reproduce god.  Write the equations so that I too may reproduce god
in my laboratory.  If you fail to be able to do that, god is not real.  It's as
simple as that, and as a Scientist you KNOW that I am correct!  There are
millions of people who believe in paranormal phenomenon, but until one of them
can reproduce such events in a controlled situation, it is not true Science. 
If you laugh at the paranormal believers, then laugh as well at religionists.

> The knowledge of God varies randomly among
> people who know of Him; there are no laboratories yet sufficient to
> conduct the studies of celestial sciences,

        Then why can't you simply say as I do, "we do not know everything about
origins of the universe".  We know a little, but we have a long way to go.  Why
must everyone attribute that which they don't understand to mythical gods.  Man
has been doing that for centuries, maybe it's just a quirk in our psyche, I
don't know.  Maybe we're just lazy and always take the easy way out.  Gods are
easy, SCIENCE IS HARD!  You don't have to work at god, you DO at Science.

> my personal tools work for
> me, but I honestly doubt they will be compatable with any others who
> may actively be searching for the existance of God...or even those who
> have found Him.

        Nobody has been able to prove even slightly that there are divine
origins to anything in the Universe.  Conversely, there is MUCH to disprove the
Universe originated by the will of some deity.

        Let me raise one skeptical point here.  If the ancients, the people who
invented the god(s) you pray to, were so smart about knowing god(s) exist, why
were they so DUMB about everything else?  Hypothesis; they were dumb about
EVERYTHING, including the existence of gods.  How's that for ya!  :o)

> There is as much proof that He does exist as there is that He does
> not. Without the ability to provide for celestial science, there is no
> way to prove God exists or does not exist anymore than we could prove
> magnetism exists with a flower petal and a green jelly bean.

        Magnetism can be reproduced in the lab, I can show you how.  Gods can
not be reproduced in the lab, you are unable to show me how.  Your parallels to
a flower petal and a jelly bean are examples of BAD SCIENCE since they are
irrelevant, and not at all related to magnetism.

> There is no logical equivalence between celestial and earthly
> sciences, and this is why neither of us can accurately prove nor
> disprove our theories using today's primitive methods alone.

        In _EVERY_ case where gods were once believed to influence nature, and
where Science has supplanted that myth with known, reproducible fact, there has
NEVER been any god included in the equation, NEVER!  Since in the areas where
we DO understand, there is no influence by gods, extrapolate that in the areas
where we do NOT yet understand, there will be no influence by gods.  This my
friend is why I consider myself to be a REAL Scientist.  I think logically.

> I cannot force anyone to assimilate my knowledge or even attempt to
> emulate the end results based upon my own unique experiences and
> experiments. Even if it were possible, it would more than likely be
> unethical. Faith is, unfortunately, the only real way for a person of
> today's age to express their belief for or against God. It is hard,
> for me especially, to be ok with this...as I am wanting to know the
> answers to everything, and have devoted most of my life to reach these
> goals.

        You fall short of your own desires, thus reach out for the security of
your god for answers to that which you are unable to comprehend, or unwilling
to explore.  This is typical in humans, so don't feel bad.  This was how the
gods were created in the first place, by protohumans.  :o)

> But this is where we are at, this is why I did not quote you
> scripture, and this is why any arguments on this subject is merely my
> word against yours on a mental or physical level.

        Reproduce god, or send him to me.  I've made that offer to christians
for years, yet no god appears, no reproduction is made.  Gods are not real.

> >You know
> >I am correct, you were trained in critical objective thinking, trained to be
> >skeptical, but only IF you are as you claim, an actual Scientist.
> 
> I am a true scientist, as are you.

        I wouldn't hire you.  ;o)

> I am curious to know what field(s)
> you study and research?

        I am a polytechnical research Scientist, involved in the areas of
embedded application & design, robotics, biotech, transgenics, and in general
research in the fields of physics, biology, and chemistry.

> I do computer science; my personal
> fascinations are with number theory/information theory,
> nanotechnology, data compression, and quantum computing.

        You would like to play with my artificial intelligence engine then.  It
has passed the Turing 1 and Turing 2 tests for artificial intelligence.  It is
based upon the model created by Dr. Richard Wallace.  It's pretty cool!  :o) 
Write to Frederick, he's experienced it and can tell you more.

> Thanks again
> for your email, and I wish you a prosperous day.
> 
>                                                            James W.

        Same to you, only I will wish one more thing for you.  I wish you would
be more critical and more skeptical in your thoughts.  I wish you would
research farther than to attribute the unknown to "gods".  That's what I wish.

Cheers!
James

     


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From: First Apostle James <james@antichrist.net> 
To: James W <jamesw@some-ISP.com> 
Cc: james@antichrist.net 
Subject: Re: The Greater Scientist... 
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:38:42 -0600 
On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, James W wrote:
> 
> lol, thanks. :) Most people I'm sure get frustrated with the answers
> and bow out quickly. It doesn't look good for them either, especially
> if they were really set to prove their point. :P I suppose it shows
> the level to how objective they are to logic. Regardless, I've enjoyed
> our correspondance as you have sound logic, and a sense of humor to
> boot. :)

        As my friend Fred (Fourth Apostle) says, lately I can be such an ass! 
I think his intolerance is rubbing off on me, he seems to have knack for that.

> True. It is difficult, as a a person who believes God to completely
> seperate one area from the other. There are times it does prevent me
> from advancement toward certain areas I really wanted to pursue. I
> suppose it only makes it more of a challenge for me.

        You have a choice, Science or mysticism, you can't have it both ways. 
Trying will make you both a poor Scientist as well as a poor mystic!  Given
that you can't prove mysticism "in a court of law" but you can Science, I
propose that Science is the truth, and all forms of shamenry are lies.

> However, I won't
> say my efficiency does not suffer because of my beliefs sometimes.

        If you believe gods effect natural occurrences, you are an ineffective
Scientist.  God is not part of any equation, except in the minds of the stupid.

> MOST times, I do not put religious connotations of any sort toward
> active works of science. With creation and origin, I have a tendency
> to do so because of the big question mark that hangs above it still.

        I reiterate, doctors laughed when it was proposed that tiny little
"bugs" could make a BIG MAN sick!  Yet this is true, and today we don't laugh. 
Just live with the unknowns, as I do.  Just accept that we know what we have
learned, and that we have SO MUCH more to learn!  Never attribute to gods that
which is not yet understood fully, that is just BAD SCIENCE!

> >     There you go again, attributing that which you are unable to
> >comprehend, or unwilling to explore, to mythical gods! 
> 
> It's difficult, at least for me, as I am torn between my love for
> science, and my love for God. My entire life I was brought up to know
> both as existant truths. Does this seem conflicting? Very! But I'm
> sure by the time my body expires, and my work is completed as best I
> could do it, I will have a very definitive yes or no answer.

        There is nothing to indicate the existence of gods.  If you are torn
between your love of science and you crutch (religion), please give one of them
up.  Either become a 100% worthless theist, or a 100% valuable Scientist, take
your pick, because you can't just sit on the fence, you need to move in one
direction or the other.  As you stand, you are completely incapacitated.

> >     If there was a god, and he truly loved us, why would he create disease
> >germs, disease viruses (aids, smallpox, polio) which has harmed MANY!  Why
> >would god create intestinal worms (parasites)?
> 
> My belief on this is, that if our enviroment is a controlled
> experiment for beings we cannot yet see or prove, illness + despair
> may be behavior control variables to use for analysis.

        That's almost as simplistic as "god made everything".  Look to
evolution for your answer.  We kill and eat chickens, pigs, or cattle.  We kill
and eat plants.  Bacteria kills and eats US!  That's just how life works!

> This adds many
> more unknowns to the existing questions previously unanswered for the
> purpose of life itself.

        Life has no purpose, it just is.  If you want a purpose in life, it's
up to you to find one (for yourself).  As I say in my treatise, the meaning to
life is the same as the meaning of a glass of water.  There IS no meaning!

> People still cannot prove that a big bang
> occured, and if it did, who may have heard it? (bang! lol).

        Sound does not propagate through space.  Strong evidence suggests that
the big bang did occur, just as before man invented the electron microscope,
strong evidence suggested the construct of atoms, and those who devised those
constructs were nearly 100% accurate.  Without eyes, they were able to see!

> Though
> based more upon science we have proven, science we know to be
> true...even Darwinism much less evolution itself does not explain
> exactly how, and why, we were created.

        It explains how we came to be.  We were NOT created, and there is no
reason WHY we are here, we just are!

> It presents objective ideas,
> good stuff for thesis statements even...but like any belief it does
> not answer everything logically.

        Yes, it does.  You need to study evolution, it's very logical.

> One of the questions I have often wondered is where do the quarks come
> from that make up atoms?

        They are matter, they come from energy, coalesced energy.  That's all
we know so far, I wish I had more to offer, but we are not yet learned enough.

> The results released from MIT upon this
> subject didn't seem to be carried further...either their funding was
> cut, or some other reason existed as to why they did not pursue it.

        They went as far as their hardware would allow.  They need a bigger
supercollider to go any farther, and that will take billions of dollars.

> Have you heard any more after the late 70's/early 80's on their
> experiments with fractional pieces of atoms? How small can structures
> be?

        We don't yet know, but theoretically, infinite.

> What is the finite level of what seems to be infinite scaled
> structures? So many questions to answer...just makes me itch to know
> them now.

        You _can_ know much, but you will never know all.  Not knowing
frustrates even me, but I'm learning to live with it.  But as with you, it's
hard for me, very hard to not know.  I want to know everything, but that is an
impracticality, one that we can only slowly overcome.

> Is that not the most frustrating thing? To know there is an answer but
> not have it yet???

        Totally frustrating.  However, instead of appeasing myself with lies, I
accept the absence of answers instead.  That makes me a GOOD Scientist.

> >My measured IQ is 232 (Cattell) so there
> >is very little that seems (or is) incomprehensible to me.
> 
> Lol. Well, I have taken several IQ tests just to see how I would fare.
> All of them seemed to have different biases they were particular to;
> either abstract mathematics, mechanical reasoning, algebraic logic,
> verbal skills, or memory questions are just a few of a myriad of known
> areas they test on. Test scores for me, varied greatly. Of the 8 tests
> I had tried, all of them were either very high, or very low. None of
> them seemed to be average to any degree. One test for example, had a
> maximum of 180 pts. Another, a maximum of 327 pts. Yet another still
> had a max. of 516. I scored nearly 168 out of 180 with the first test.
> Was quite pleased. Scored 236 out of 327 with the second. Not pleased.
> Scored 486 out of 516 on the third. With the fourth, which only had
> 100 pts. maximum, I only scored 51! I was like WTF! I suppose the only
> real way to measure IQ tests correctly would be to give several of
> them, then provide the average of all test scores combined to give a
> more reliable figure.

        My Stanford-Binet score is 188 (four points below the smartest man in
the United States).  The Cattell test is the only one accepted for higher
intelligence quotients.  I'm not sure what tests you are ascribing to above.

> >     Did you experience a self-induced hypnotic event, invoked at a period
> >of great stress in your life, or perhaps a misfiring in your brain (schizotypal
> >event) which is the basis for your religious beLIEfs?
> 
> If I were able to tell you honestly, if this was the case, then I
> would not waste anyone's time presenting what I believe. :D

        Charley Manson really did believe god was telling him to kill people
(the voice in his head).  Moses (in the bible) heard voices in his head telling
him to kill people and rape virgin girls.  He too was obviously schizophrenic.

        If you want my assessment, without having the full facts, I'd say you
probably had a schizoid or schizotypal event.  It wasn't real, only imagined.

> >When you "drop acid" and
> >"see god" is that really god or just a hallucination?  When you have a
> >spontaneous hallucination, caused by disease or stress, is that somehow real?
> 
> That's a fair question. I really feel there's a lot of people who play
> with drugs who shouldn't so they may 'experience God'. This is totally
> different from my own experiences. I have, since I was a young child,
> rejected drugs, alchohol, and most other known elements which were
> clearly harmful to my well being.

        If you had experienced LSD, perhaps you wouldn't mistake a schizotypal
event with reality.  :o)  Drugs _can_ be highly enlightening!

> I've given up television and movies
> entirely too, as my work is too important to be distracted by nonsense
> like that.

        I haven't.  I enjoy watching a movie now and again.  :o)

> It is safe to say that those people who do use drugs to see
> things, etc. do actually believe what they've seen. For me it wasn't
> drug related. I cannot prove or disprove it was a neuron misfire
> either.

        Everything suggests that this was true.  A schizotypal event.  If they
happen often, and "god goes away" with treatment using antipsychotic drugs,
then they were all just misfirings in the brain, purely a misinterpretation.

> Today's provisions for proof are crude. Look how hard it is to
> prove the existance of or recreate just one unit of anti-matter! How
> much harder it is to try and prove the unknown...

        It is hard to make anti-matter.  Hard, but not impossible.  Detecting
gods has been absolutely impossible.  Supposition, gods must not exist.

> >     Here on antichrist dot net, my friend David, an untreated schizophrenic,
> >used to talk about his special interpretations of the bible.  It was unique,
> >but not at all unlike the interpretations of OTHER schizophrenics.  :o)
> 
> lol..:P I know, there are far too many insane people who use religion
> as a crutch simply because they cannot or will not understand that as
> strongly as they believe there is a God to be proven, there is a
> scientist willing to disprove their belief. This is something most
> religious people cannot handle due to their emotion over logic, and
> probably one possible reason people do not wish to write further on
> the subject.

        Most schizophrenics write huge religious tutorials.  Example is my
friend David's last thesis.  http://www.antichrist.net/david.html  As real as
all this was to him, it is unreal to the rest of us, but if we had going on in
OUR minds what went on in his, probably we'd be right in there with him.

> >     As a Scientist, I don't have beLIEfs, I have KNOWLEDGE.  I don't say "I
> >believe", I either say "I know" or "I do not know".  Anything else, and I am
> >not a Scientist, I am a shamen.
> 
> Or a Rabbi? LMFAO...Christians are not always with it, a lot of them
> are hypocrates too. But if not for the Jews Christianity would not
> exist.

        Christianity was invented to counter judaism, too many slaves were
becoming jews, and once a jew, refused to be slaves anymore, even upon severe
torture.  Ergo, christianity was the only solution, a strap-on "new testament"
to supplant the old, and thwart the indoctrination by the jews.

> I see them as a bigger threat than Christians because popular
> Christianity is based upon Judiastic stories to usher their control of
> people who will believe them.

        Then you do understand the reason christianity and jesus was invented.

> >     This is what makes you a defective Scientist.  I don't mean to offend
> >you, but if you continue to cling on to myths created in lieu of Science at the
> >dawn of civilization, then you are doomed to be an inadequate Scientist.
> 
> I know it isn't logical to substitute religious belief for unknowns of
> current formulas, just very difficult not to. I suppose it is a
> personal as well as a professional challenge to be met. I will rise
> above any situation I can to prove or disprove it ultimately. Just a
> matter of time.

        You are weak.  Exercise your mind and become strong, like me.  :o)

> >     Ok, reproduce god.  Write the equations so that I too may reproduce god
> >in my laboratory.  If you fail to be able to do that, god is not real.
> 
> Again, are we to measure the unknown variables with tools that may not
> apply? How do we know that God CAN be measured with our existant
> technology?

        How do we now know the "ether" does not exist (by your logic)?  Again I
stress, you are being a bad Scientist.  Stoppit!  :o)  People like you caused
the polywater scare of the 1950's.  Bad Science is DEstructive!

> Just as the ancient people who believed myths of
> gods/goddesses, we could just as well as scientists tell ourselves
> that God does not exist only because we do not yet have the capability
> to prove he does. We would have to know of God to be able to know how
> to accurately measure or reproduce the proof of Him for others to
> witness.

        As stated above, we didn't have the means to visualize the atom, yet we
were able to fathom the construct WAY before we were technologically advanced
enough to verify this theory.  Applied to theology, Science disproves gods. 
Since the period where mankind has recorded history, there have been over five
thousand different gods, created by even more different civilizations all over
the world.  Only one or two are accepted as true today, yet I go farther and
use logic to suggest that they are all false.  Can't you see that logic?

> Sir Isaac Newton knew well the prism could seperate focused
> light, but did he know his work would be used to develop laser rods,
> for fiber optics, or for any other methods? Hardly. If we tried to
> prove to Newton a laser would be possible, much less fiber optic
> transfer after computers were explained, would he say he rejects it
> simply because there is no way to prove seperated light could be made
> coherent, combined with superheated gas, and fired toward a target?

        How do you know what Newton would or would not accept?  Were I
describing excited atoms, and the resultant stimulated photonic emissions and
their properties, he'd probably accept it for experimentation.

> Would he even believe us that the laser beam *would not be visible*???
> With his technology he would give us a most emphatic no, call us
> fanatics, then tell us why, based upon his known results, why it would
> not work.

        Every indication shows Newton was a good Scientist (like me).  Prove
your point, and he would accept it.  Invisible IR radiation can be shown with a
thermometer, something they did have back then.  ;o)  Two thermometers side by
side, an IR laser on one, and not on the other would show the "invisible".

> Because not even microlithography was invented, his very
> realization of a computer might be rejected! We have to consider,
> based upon history and man's folly, both scientifically as well as
> religiously, that often a man is only capable of what he knows or has
> to work with; nothing more.

        You are starting to sound more and more to me like a well read theist,
nothing you say suggests the mind set of a true Scientist.

> >It's as
> >simple as that, and as a Scientist you KNOW that I am correct!  There are
> >millions of people who believe in paranormal phenomenon, but until one of them
> >can reproduce such events in a controlled situation, it is not true Science. 
> 
> That's true. There's all types of quacks who like to say 'ooh! I saw a
> ghost'...but turns out it was a reflection of light from a mirror, or
> a very cruel trick played by someone with the right idea of how to
> scare someone.

        Same is true of gods (aka holy ghosts) my friend.

> >     Then why can't you simply say as I do, "we do not everything about the
> >origins of the universe".
> 
> We do not know everything about the origins of the universe. Until we
> do, I cannot rule out the existance of God.

        We do not know everything about medicine, until we do, I can not rule
out the existence of voodoo spirits, and the need for chants and spells. 
That's roughly what you just said, twisted to a way to make you laugh.  Laugh
at your own god, because it's JUST as not real as voodoo spirits!

> We would really need the
> right tools for this job to rove it James. Just as Newton didn't have
> the tools or the knowledge or the experience to build a working
> rubidium laser, we ourselves do not yet have the tools to accurately
> rule out the fact our entire universe is a controlled experiment
> created for a specific reason by a scientist who does not conform to
> the laws of physics or laws of matter/energy/space/time.

        I am not aware of, nor could I find reference to a "rubidium" laser,
did you mean neodymium?  Rubidium is used in laser filters however.

        Now to counter your claims, yes we do now have the tools to create the
tools to prove or disprove gods.  We have done it.  Gods are not real!  Gods
were invented at the dawn of civilization by drooling backward fools, yet we
believe those stories as truth, even to this day, why?  Why did god(s) only
appear to those people to prove themselves, and fail to appear today? 
Summation, they were untreated schizophrenics, and gods are a lie.

> >Maybe we're just lazy and always take the easy way out.  Gods are
> >easy, SCIENCE IS HARD!  You don't have to work at god, you DO at Science.
> 
> I won't even say for a second that many people select God simply
> because they want to believe only...and say it is true. Many of these
> people have no basis or comprehension of the scientific method or what
> it entails. If they did, many of them would be distracted or not even
> care for it as we do (It's really sad too, because if they only knew
> what they were missing!). People sometimes have a lead or idea to
> actively know of God. Others simply use him as a crutch. The people
> who use him as a crutch are usually the same people who hypocritically
> preach to others yet have not lived by the examples they expect others
> to follow.

        Good reasons for you to become an atheist!  ;o)

> >     Nobody has been able to prove even slightly that there are divine
> >origins to anything in the Universe.  Conversely, there is MUCH to disprove the
> >Universe originated by the will of some deity.
> 
> It may have not been created by some deity at all. It may have been
> created from the process of a group of deities, from one deity, or
> none at all. We have yet to find out! :D

        None at all seems like the most likely scenario.  There is much to
indicate gods are not real, nothing to indicate that gods ARE real.

> >     Let me raise one skeptical point here.  If the ancients, the people who
> >invented the god(s) you pray to, were so smart about knowing god(s) exist, why
> >were they so DUMB about everything else?  Hypothesis; they were dumb about
> >EVERYTHING, including the existence of gods.  How's that for ya!  :o)
> 
> lol! Well granted, jews say they can heal flesh wounds if they eat the
> excrement of White dogs, or create a potion of dung, dirt, plus sweet
> honey after it is collected from the shadows of outdoor toilets.

        If you eat the dung of white dogs that had eaten a lot of antibiotics,
you betcha!  This jewish example is bad medicine, but it kinda hints to what
was to come, the use of actual alkaloids and salts to treat illness (medicine).

        As you can see, the jews control nearly 100% of what we see and what we
know, so in the end, they do dominate over us, even getting us to fight their
wars for them in the middle east.  I'd say that judiasm is a far greater threat
to the free White man than christianity or any other religion.

> This
> is BULLS*IT! hahaha, but, maybe it's because these people were so damn
> lost that God could not turn them lose for the experiment yet. I mean,
> if the rat starts to naw on himself rather than the cheese for food,
> you as the scientist have to figure out what the hell is wrong with
> that crazy rat, then figure out why he has no desire for the cheese.
> If the experiment requires the rat to actually get to the cheese to
> perform the experiment then the scientist must do what is necessary to
> see that those ends are met and carried out properly.

        No you DO NOT!  You emphatically DO NOT!  You describe BAD SCIENCE! 
Stoppit!  :o(  What you do is set up 50 or 100 experiments, if one or two chew
off their own limbs, they are removed from the equation, and we go with the
outcome of the majority of the experiments.  If one person dies taking an
experimental drug, and 1000 do not, they still license the use of that drug! 
Man, you sure are a theist first, and a logical thinker last, that's for sure.

> >     Magnetism can be reproduced in the lab, I can show you how.  Gods can
> >not be reproduced in the lab, you are unable to show me how.  Your parallels to
> >a flower petal and a jelly bean are examples of BAD SCIENCE since they are
> >irrelevant, and not at all related to magnetism.
> 
> It was more a figuretive comment than a scientific comparison. The
> flower petal/jelly bean example was just to propose how impossible it
> would be to use inadequate tools such as those to prove or disprove
> something else.

        Geez man, GET THE RIGHT TOOLS OR MAKE THEM!  Crap!  You keep arguing
circular logic, try to focus, man!  Put down the crack pipe and focus!  ;o)

> >     In _EVERY_ case where gods were once believed to influence nature, and
> >where Science has supplanted that myth with known, reproducible fact, there has
> >NEVER been any god included in the equation, NEVER!  Since in the areas where
> >we DO understand, there is no influence by gods, extrapolate that in the areas
> >where we do NOT yet understand, there will be no influence by gods.  This my
> >friend is why I consider myself to be a REAL Scientist.  I think logically.
> 
> Yes, you do. And it's refreshing to speak with someone who does!

        I wish I could say the same for you.  I'm frustrated talking to you
because you travel in a circle, using circular logic, you fail to comprehend
what I say, and I'm forced to repeat it.  Perhaps that's why I spend so much
time talking with Frederick (the Fourth Apostle).  He and I groove, we feel
energized after our discussions.  I find you on the other hand, frustrating.

> All
> too often I have to deal with people who are not as intellectually
> capable to comprehend this type of discussion at all.

        Yourself included I'm sorry to say.  ;o)

> We have not used a variable for God because our science has yet to
> evolve to a level where it would make sense to do so. Unfortunately,
> the very idea of God has been promoted or otherwise marketed by jews,
> christians, and other religious mlm marketers to make a profit. People
> who do that are bigots, personally offensive to me. If people who
> believe the existance of God would stop being so trivial and
> illogical, there might be some active work for a scientist such as
> myself to actually prove the existance of God, and have those results
> be credible WITHOUT being used falsely by the fanatics to say 'look!
> here's the proof! he did it!' even if my experiment was not
> conclusive.

        Many before you have tried, I invite you to prove god.  If you prove
it, and I am able to reproduce your results, then I too will believe in god. 
There you go, want me to believe in god?  Prove it!

> Right now, it feels like a lonely research topic. There are few if any
> scientists who would work with me on this, due to the fact that it
> would require a lifetime of work.

        A lifetime of frustration you mean.  ;o)

> Additionally, the flack from the
> bible thumpers would condemn me for the very thought of proving God's
> existance. They are comfortable with thier myths, never to know there
> is actual proof for them beyond what they make for themselves. I want
> to be able to prove it or disprove it for them, having them know for
> once there is a scientist who does believe of God's existance while he
> works towards those ends.

        Every indication suggests that gods do not exist.  Deal with it.  You
know I'm right, in your heart you KNOW I'm right, otherwise you're mind is far
too weak to take on such a task.  Man invented god(s) in HIS own image, because
man is weak, and scared, and needs comfort.  We tell sick people they are going
to be OK even when we know they are dying, why?  Because we are HUMAN!

> Most scientists who would consider this
> topic would be atheists more than likely, and would attempt this great
> project just to disprove it. But by doing this, those same scientists
> carry their own personal bias with them that may lead areas of the
> test to be closer to their own favor (it isn't scientific, but several
> scientists have done this because they want specific test results, or
> are personally attached to their theory).

        Like the cold fusion fraud, they are quickly, and thoroughly exposed.

> These scientists may carry
> their idea of "No God" right to the lab with them...thus making them
> just as defective of a scientist as I would be were I to use or
> manipulate any part of the enviroment determin a yes or no answer to
> God's existance.

        Scientists operate from fact.  Many times I've had to accept things I
didn't want to accept after repeated experimentation.  It's a part of life.

> >     You fall short of your own desires, thus reach out for the security of
> >your god for answers to that which you are unable to comprehend, or unwilling
> >to explore.  This is typical in humans, so don't feel bad.  This was how the
> >gods were created in the first place, by protohumans.  :o)
> 
> Well, I hope I do get somewhere with it. :) I will have wasted a lot
> of precious time if I don't. Good or bad, I will do all I can to find
> an answer...even if it means I have to put my own beliefs on the shelf
> to do so. It's that important to me for people to know.

        Then spend your time more wisely, studying REAL Science.  :o)

> >     Reproduce god, or send him to me.  I've made that offer to christians
> >for years, yet no god appears, no reproduction is made.  Gods are not real.
> 
> Well, most Christians are not scientists. Those who are usually won't
> speak of it. They may or may not see things as I do, but I know that
> because we do not have the tools or the knowledge to prove His
> existance, they will not step up to the challenge.

        I don't know what schizoid event you experienced that you derive your
desires from, but perhaps you should experiment inside your own mind with
hallucinogenic drugs, see if you can reproduce the experience that caused your
belief in gods.  Then counter that experience with antipsychotic drugs.  Prove
to yourself gods are merely wishful thinking inside the minds of man.

> Then again, some of the people who emailed you about Christianity are
> really ridiculous with their ideals...trying to force conversion to
> their beliefs without evidence for you to review. The Bible has been
> manipulated, revised, edited, and is currently put out mostly by
> jewish publishers who are famous for creative story writing.

        Yeah, like how the jewish controlled media never tell about how South
Africa was a first world nation (where heart transplantation was first
performed) but only under Apartheid, and only under White rule.  Today under
black rule, rape is legal, murder is tolerated, and the nation has dropped to
third world status.  The jews did not report when the negroes took power, they
killed all the white farmers, and are now starving.  They don't report how
under Mandella, South Africa can no longer be trusted to pay debts, thus
Mastercard and Visa are NOT accepted there anymore.  From a thriving First
World nation, to third world status in just SEVEN YEARS under black rule!

        This same story can apply to Rhodesia (now black ruled Zimbabwe) only
the negroes in Zimbabwe reject the US food donations because we have
"poisonous" food, since we genetically modify OUR food.  So now that Zimbabwe
has killed all their White farmers, and rejected our donations of food, they
can now all die, and I hope they die arduously, nobody deserves it more.

> >> I am a true scientist, as are you.
> >
> >     I wouldn't hire you.  ;o)
> 
> That's ok, I'm quite satisfied with picking strawberries for $1.25 an
> hour. :oD LOL

        Sounds like a job for you.  ;o)  You do show qualifications.  :o)

> >     I am a polytechnical research Scientist, involved in the areas of
> >embedded application & design, robotics, biotech, transgenics, and in general
> >research in the fields of physics, biology, and chemistry.
> 
> Awesome! :) What area would you say is your favorite?

        All aspects of Science intrigue me, but I am most fond of physical
sciences (physics).

> Oh, btw, I have a question for you with regard to a borderline
> chemistry experiment: Do you know where I may be able to acquire an
> instrument to measure picoseconds accurately? If not, a cesium 133 or
> hydrogen based atomic clock would do, so long as it is accurate to .6
> nanoseconds has the means to be connected to a PCI bus or serial port
> to display the results. I looked for test equipment like this, several
> companies...none fo which seemed to carry it. Tempustech.com is about
> the only commercial lead I've had for the computer interface side of
> it (I could probably use an old ISA card, remove the components, and
> use it as a daughterboard to build an atomic clock interface onto, but
> I'd rather not redo the work if it's already been done and is readily
> prepared).

        http://www.nist.gov should be able to help you out there, but not
without substantial costs.  Do you have plenty of money?

> >     You would like to play with my artificial intelligence engine then.  It
> >has passed the Turing 1 and Turing 2 tests for artificial intelligence.  
> 
> :) back-propogated neural network or other?

        It's based upon the Case Based Reasoning logical engine created by Dr.
Richard Wallace.  It is one of the more interesting AI programs you'll ever see.

> >Write to Frederick, he's experienced it and can tell you more.
> 
> Ok, I'd love to test it out sometime. :) I currently run QNX and
> FreeBSD 4.7 on my system. I have a wine emulator on BSD, but it's
> buggy. I have freedos on my last partition, so if it's a dos prog., I
> can still run it even if dosEmu won't. Is there a url I could download
> the binaries from or sources to compile for either of these systems? :)

        I can offer you an ELF binary, I run Red Hat linux myself, and this AI
was compiled as an ELF binary.  The one binary is all inclusive, no library
files are needed.  Let me know if you want it.  :o)  The version that runs on
IRC (what Frederick played with) is different, not just one single binary.

> >> Thanks again
> >> for your email, and I wish you a prosperous day.
> >
> >     Same to you, only I will wish one more thing for you.  I wish you would
> >be more critical and more skeptical in your thoughts.  I wish you would
> >research farther than to attribute the unknown to "gods".  That's what I wish.
> 
> ;) I cannot make any promises, but I will try to be more skeptical and
> objective.

        I sure hope so.  :o)  However, since you keep going in circles, I will
not reply to your next letter unless you break and go in a new direction,
either theist or atheist.  If you sit the fence, I will not reply again.

Cheers!
James
     


 MESSAGE CENTER  Read Message Logged in as: root 
  Mailbox: james on Antichrist.net Message: 18 of 284
  Current Folder: INBOX
From: First Apostle James <james@antichrist.net> 
To: jamesw@some-ISP.com 
Cc: james@antichrist.net 
Subject: Re: New direction // reply 
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:19:23 -0600 
James W,

        I do want to reply to the whole of your letter, especially your similar
political views (regarding Israel and Africa).  However, I am a Scientist
before all else, and I simply _had_ to comment before I called it quits for the
day, regarding your misunderstanding of lasers and laser dopants.

James W wrote:
> 
> >First Apostel James wrote:
> >I am not aware of, nor could I find reference to a "rubidium" laser,
> >did you mean neodymium?  Rubidium is used in laser filters however.
> 
> It's often called the Ruby Laser, as it uses a rubidium rod for
> construction. I call it by its proper name out of good habit.
> Searches for it online are best conducted with the keyword ruby laser, as
> rubidium laser usually returns results only related to spectral filters.
> 
> http://digilander.libero.it/westaustralia/rubylaser/ Homebuilt Ruby laser.
> http://www.advanceddermatologypc.com/qswitched.htm Q-Switched Rubidium Laser
> used for dermatology.

        You should look up what a ruby is.  The ruby laser uses CHROMIUM not
RUBIDIUM for the lasing dopant.  As I have explained many times, you are a bad
Scientist, you come to conclusions without following proper coursework.

        Here's a URL to explain how the chromium dopant in a fused aluminum
oxide rod is the basis for the "ruby laser".  In fact, here are several.

http://accelconf.web.cern.ch/AccelConf/p99/PAPERS/WEA105.PDF

Chromium gives ruby its characteristic red color and is responsible for the
lasing behavior of the crystal. Chromium atoms absorb green and blue light and
emit or reflect only red light. For a ruby laser, a crystal of ruby is formed
into a cylinder... http://www.cat.ernet.in/lasinfo/ruby.html

(basically the same as above, only provided by the US government)
http://www.llnl.gov/nif/library/aboutlasers/how.html

http://dutch.phys.strath.ac.uk/CommPhys2001Exam/Allison_Rice/ruby.htm
http://www.achilles.net/~jtalbot/amateur/movies/Ruby.html
http://www.achilles.net/~jtalbot/history/ruby.html
http://helios.physics.uoguelph.ca/summer/scor/articles/scor15.htm

        This should be enough to prove I am the superior Scientist.  Not that
this was my intention, but to tout yourself in that email like you were
superior to me, then mistake ruby (chromium doped aluminum oxide) for the pure
element rubidium only shows you are hopelessly unqualified to be a Scientist.

http://www.tamuk.edu/chemistry/WebElements/rubidium_element.htm
http://www.qivx.com/ispt/elements/ispt_037.htm
http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele037.html

        There are plenty more websites to verify my claims if these are not
enough.  The reason why you were only able to find rubidium filters in
association with lasers is because, as I said in my previous email, the only
application that I know of for rubidium with lasers is as a filter.

        Did you note in my previous email that I specialize in Physical
Science?  Did you really think you could make sh*t up like this and I'd somehow
fail to catch it, and not comment on it?  Or do you truly believe your own
falsehoods, and misapplications of "knowledge"?  Do you honestly believe at
this exact moment in time, you are _as_intelligent_ as you purport you are?

        James W, stick with shamenry, at least there you're an EXPERT!

James

     


 MESSAGE CENTER  Read Message Logged in as: root 
  Mailbox: james on Antichrist.net Message: 1 of 286
  Current Folder: INBOX
From: First Apostle James <james@antichrist.net> 
To: jamesw@some-ISP.com 
Cc: james@antichrist.net 
Subject: Re: New direction // reply 
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:37:58 -0600 
James W wrote:
> 
> I confess I offered you a trick question (and a trick answer!) but it's no
> reason to fly off the handle on me. I know, it was not exactly fair to provide
> a misleading answer...but I merely wanted to know how much you did know about
> laser sciences after all our talk, and how well you would react to the same
> type of egotism that you've thrown at me all throughout our correspondance.

        No, those kind of mind game tricks may work on christians, however they
will not work on me, or any true Scientist.  You my friend are a bad Scientist,
that's a fact, you've proven it, we all see it, everyone even the weak minded
can see it.  You made a mistake, you showed us all exactly _why_ you consider
yourself a christian as well as a Scientist.  A true Scientist would have had
the FACTS before making a statement.  This is why all good Scientists are
atheist.  You accept things that sound good, or sound close (ruby; rubidium) as
fact without doing the proper coursework, namely RESEARCH!  You were not
testing me, if you were, you'd have encoded proof of the test somehow into the
message, or sent another message with a pgp encrypted message stating the fact
of your test of my knowledge on lasers, and to prove this to us all, released
the password to read the encrypted message NOW, after the fact,  That's how I
would have done it, so that the time-stamps and message arrival times would not
lie.  Had you done that, I'd have applauded your (albeit unnecessary) test.

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: 2.3a

pgAAAHPST9+v06CPG67yXJIdtkI1+pOVz9Hj55SokNXYe6HmGzLYZdg0Z5zV3Zwi
Jt2pyc+OS3qRrcj217GkuhBtCW9wAugFnmuYw516JGg96KRKRVb16oetjC97zgem
SKYZx32vY7gWWJhHlqlpQ+6rZ4bVFvq9
=72+j
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

        The password for the encrypted message (above) is "science".

James
     


 MESSAGE CENTER  Read Message Logged in as: root 
  Mailbox: james on Antichrist.net Message: 1 of 291
  Current Folder: INBOX
From: First Apostle James <james@antichrist.net> 
To: jamesw@some-ISP.com 
Cc: james@antichrist.net 
Subject: Re: New direction // reply 
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 00:59:31 -0600 
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, James W wrote:

> >You my friend are a bad Scientist, that's a fact, you've proven it,
> >we all see it, everyone even the weak minded can see it.
> 
> Actually, I've proved the contrary. I'm a good scientist, and my logic
> is capable of higher levels than what even great scientists assume and
> attempt to predict.
> 
> >You made a mistake, you showed us all exactly _why_ you consider
> >yourself a christian as well as a Scientist.
> 
> No, I gave a test. You made a mistake. Next time I'm sure you'll do
> better. A true scientist never gives up. :) The fact the test was
> conclusive is proof that I'm a good scientist...since you never
> noticed any part of the presance of this until now. :)
> 
> >You were not testing me, if you were, you'd have encoded proof of the
> >test somehow into the message, or sent another message with a pgp
> >encrypted message stating the fact of your test of my knowledge on
> >lasers, and to prove this to us all, released the password to read
> >the encrypted message.
> 
> I don't use PGP anymore. It's been cracked before.

        Man, you just don't give up!  You are a master of circular logic, you
really should take my advice and drop your Scientific pursuits and concentrate
on theology.  The real test you're performing is, when will I give up on
replying to your incessant bullsh*t?  It compares it to a cat, batting at a
piece of string.  The string moves, so the cat bats again.  I won't be that cat!

        As for the PGP message, your claims that 2.3a has been cracked are
false, project bovine did brute force ONE version of PGP, but it was NOT 2.3a
(which contains military RSA encryption), of course you'll only claim your lack
of knowledge regarding this fact as a part of your test.  So if you are unable
to decipher the message (and yes, there is a message in there) because you
don't use PGP anymore, since it's been cracked, keep this in mind.  Project
bovine took months, nearly a year to crack a 56 bit encryption.  This one is
1024 bit. Do the math, extrapolate the required parallel computing "crack time".

        Remember, I will NOT be that cat (should you reply to this message). 
Also, I am not out to persecute you, nor am I egocentric, because until now, I
have not mentioned that your spelling is atrocious.  If my goal was to condemn
you, I'd have done it with that point three messages ago.

James