On Wed, 01 Sep 2004, you wrote:
> Dear James,
> 
> I have found some flaws in your idea that Rome created Christianity as
> a tool to enslave people.

        Oh really?  Because nobody has ever found any irrefutable evidence
before.  Let's proceed in this mental exercise, shall we?  :o)

> 1. The Disciples
> These guys were Jewish bums that Jesus picked up to be his pals. They
> were in the end all tortured and martyred for their faith. If you knew
> something was fake, would you endure torture to keep its secret? I
> would have bailed instantly if it was fake. What about you?

        A long, long time ago in a galaxy far away...  Question: what do Luke
Skywalker and Jesus have in common?  Well for one, almost everyone knows who
Luke Skywalker is, you can travel the globe and everywhere you go, people can
tout from memory the heroic exploits of young Luke.  Likewise, everyone can do
the same for Jesus.  Also, these exploits are well documented in a book, this
is true of Luke, as well as Jesus.  Finally, and this is the most considerable
aspect, BOTH LUKE AN JESUS ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS!  Neither of these widely
known (and loved) people EVER EXISTED IN THE FLESH!  The most conspicuous proof
that Jesus is a myth, is the fact that nobody in his own time, wrote a word
about him.  Writings about Jesus didn't appear until around 66 YEARS AFTER his
purported crucifixion (and resurrection) regardless who wrote the new testament!
My claims are that Calpurnius Piso wrote the new testament, but since it was
done covertly, I am unable to fully substantiate this claim.  However, the
unrefutable fact remains, that Jesus was so unremarkable in his own time that
it was another two lifetimes before anyone wrote of him (whomever that was).

        Obi Wan Kenobi martyred himself for a lie, JUST AS THE JESUS DESCIPLES
HAD DONE, but why?  If Obi Wan knew it was a lie, why did he martyr himself?  I
believe the fact that he was a mythical character, and did not exist in the
flesh has a LOT to do with it!  :o)  Here's an easy way for you to identify a
story book character, over a real living human being.  Story book characters
are mostly infallible, mostly invincible, and capable of super-human feats.
Using those markers, it's clear to see that both the widely known and loved Luke
Skywalker and the character Jesus have the same essential properties.

        Note that I am only using StarWars as an example here, there are many
other stories one could use, even Buffy the Vampire Slayer, to make this point.

> 2. Christ's Resurrection
> After Christ's Resurrection, he was seen by 500 people. All of the
> disciples saw him before He rose to Heaven.

        Luke Skywalker lost his hand, when his father (basically the equate to
Satan) cut it off with a light saber (a weapon which everyone knows, and
understands, yet does not and can not exist in the real world).  Robotic
surgeons replaced his hand with a perfectly working prosthetic.  This was seen
NOT by a mere 500 people, but by millions, worldwide on the big screen!  Story
telling technique may have evolved considerably since the times of Jesus, but I
assure you, both are equal in that both are nothing more than pure fiction.

> This can be related to
> point 1...why would they lie about something only to be brutally
> killed?

        Ask Obi Wan Kenobi, after all, he died for a noble cause!  No wait, you
can't, because HE IS NOT REAL!  Neither is Jesus, or Santa Clause, or the Tooth
Fairie or the myriad of other myths that man just loves to spin yarn about.  ;o)

> Plus, even if they thought it was real, who could Rome pull
> off having a guy pose as Jesus with clean holes through his hands?

        The real key to this was in two fronts.  First, it was written in the
future, thus predicting the past was easy.  Second, they had plays which they
allowed the slaves to watch, depicting what was in the bible (since few could
read) which later became church sermons (same thing basically).  This sold the
slaves on the idea of martyrdom, the greater reward AFTER DEATH (your basic
"the check is in the mail" scenario), the need to turn the other cheek (if your
master should smite you) and to serve your masters, even the froward.  Nowhere
in the bible does Jesus say to rise up and defeat your slave owning masters!  He
teaches servitude based upon this example, from a master to his slave; "Wash my
feet slave, and today I am in heaven.  But woe to me, for when I die, I shall
perish into the fires of eternal damnation, while you, having suffered through
life, will have everlasting glory in a palace of gold in heaven."  Wow, trade my
short and miserable life for an eternity of bliss?  I'M SOLD, HOW ABOUT YOU?

> 3. Christian Slaves
> There must have been some poor planning on Caesar's part. Who in fact
> was he trying to control as slaves? By making Jesus the "King of the
> Jews",

        The Jews tried him, sentenced him, placed a crown (of thorns) upon the
head of "their King"...  I think you see where I'm going with this.  ;o)  Never
forget, it was not the Romans that sealed the fate of Jesus, but the JEWS!  Rome
hated, but could not control the powerful Jews (just as nobody can control the
powerful Jews today) so this was a backhand to the face of powerful Jewry.

> I think he was targeting Jews. Well, they've never accepted
> Christ as the Messiah, so I guess that was a bang-up job.

        Rome achieved their objectives.  ;o)

> But
> wait...the Jewish leaders were corruptible, and if Caesar got to them,
> he could have made them declare Jesus as the Messiah, and poof! All
> the Jews have a new set of rules he controlled. But no. It didn't come
> to pass.

        It's impossible to take away an existing meme (Judaism), the Roman
Aristocracy realized this, so instead, they simply created a new, highly
specialized COMPETING meme, a more modern one, with modern refinements, greater
infectability, greater compliance, and then released that meme into their slave
population.  They did so by attaching this NEW meme onto the old (strapped the
new testament upon the old testament).  It worked like a charm, and continues to
work TO THIS DAY!  Memes believe it or not, are more effective, and more
powerful than atomic bombs!  Fear of nuclear annihilation pales in the face of
the control that the Christ meme seems to have upon people!

        Christianity was invented to make compliant slaves (you suffer in life,
to gain a reward after death).  Islam was invented to make compliant soldiers
(you die while trying to defeat the enemy, and you receive 72 virgins clamoring
for your sexual attention for all eternity in heaven).  Only Judaism was created
NOT for a purpose, but rather by a man strikingly similar to Charley Manson
(Moses).  Both were schizophrenics (who heard voices in their heads telling them
to kill people).  Moses is a saint, while Manson is a sinner, but why?  Moses
_documented_ "god" telling him to murder and RAPE whole villages!

> 4. Constantine
> If this guy became the Roman emperor, don't you think someone would
> have clued him into the fact that Rome created Christianity, instead
> of letting him create the Roman Catholic Church, which in turn ended
> up ruling the world?

        Constantine was born 240 years after the secretive creation of the
Christ meme, odds are he simply didn't realize it was a remnant Roman weapon.
As an example, try to remember what people did around the time United States was
founded as a nation?  What, you can't?  Then how did you expect Constantine to
know?  Don't feel bad, I don't know what happened around the time of the birth
of our nation, save for what the historians (read: bible writers) put down in
text for me to read, thus my knowledge of that time is flawed.

> I don't think that was in Caesar's original
> draft. In addition, if this was Rome's big idea, then why isn't it
> documented anywhere? Rome would have certainly written it down
> somewhere.

        A thought virus (meme) is only effective so long as it is perceived as
truth.  Remember the day you discovered Santa Clause was a lie?  You were
probably heart broken, and your whole world came apart.  Do you realize now why
your parents went to such great lengths to keep you from realizing that truth
too soon?  Maybe you can now equate why Rome kept it a secret, a meme only
works if it is thought to be true.  PEOPLE WILL DIE FOR JESUS TO THIS DAY!
Would people die for Yoda?  A few would (shows the power of a myth).  Never
forget that Darth Vader, born Anakin Skywalker, WAS A SLAVE!  ;o)  Also never
forget, that for quite a few, StarWars has BECOME for them, a real RELIGION!
The same can be said for StarTrek (visit any comic convention to see).

> There you have it. I enjoy reading your response.
> 
> David

        And there you have my response.  I hope you and the thousands (perhaps
millions) who read the website will also enjoy it.  :o)  When you take a basic
premise, that Jesus or Luke are real, then the fantastic things that happen in
either book thereafter are HARD to explain, really, but if you take the basic
premise that both are fictional characters, then it's MUCH easier to swallow.

Cheers!
James - Dragonrider for the Temple of the Sith.

Dear James,

I have found some flaws in your idea that Rome created Christianity as
a tool to enslave people.

1. The Disciples
These guys were Jewish bums that Jesus picked up to be his pals. They
were in the end all tortured and martyred for their faith. If you knew
something was fake, would you endure torture to keep its secret? I
would have bailed instantly if it was fake. What about you?

2. Christ's Resurrection
After Christ's Resurrection, he was seen by 500 people. All of the
disciples saw him before He rose to Heaven. This can be related to
point 1...why would they lie about something only to be brutally
killed? Plus, even if they thought it was real, who could Rome pull
off having a guy pose as Jesus with clean holes through his hands?
They couldn't. So the only way they could pull it off was to make the
disciples lie. And Rome would end up killing them anyway, so I would
think the disciples would die right there. If they truly believed in
Jesus' teachings, they would never submit to it.

3. Christian Slaves
There must have been some poor planning on Caesar's part. Who in fact
was he trying to control as slaves? By making Jesus the "King of the
Jews", I think he was targeting Jews. Well, they've never accepted
Christ as the Messiah, so I guess that was a bang-up job. But
wait...the Jewish leaders were corruptible, and if Caesar got to them,
he could have made them declare Jesus as the Messiah, and poof! All
the Jews have a new set of rules he controlled. But no. It didn't come
to pass. Well maybe he was targeting Gentiles? Um, no. Those were
Roman citizens. He already had an legion of Jews that he could put to
work easily with this ploy. Why work harder to make the Gentiles, who
would in turn stop bowing to Caesar to accept this lifestyle, when he
could easily market Jesus as the Messiah and have the entire Jewish
nation in the palm of his hand? This proves the Romans had no control
over Jesus.

4. Constantine
If this guy became the Roman emperor, don't you think someone would
have clued him into the fact that Rome created Christianity, instead
of letting him create the Roman Catholic Church, which in turn ended
up ruling the world? I don't think that was in Caesar's original
draft. In addition, if this was Rome's big idea, then why isn't it
documented anywhere? Rome would have certainly written it down
somewhere.

There you have it. I enjoy reading your response.

David

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004, you wrote:
> James-
> 
> I must have misjudged you. I assumed you would admit that Jesus was a
> real man, and I just thought your idea was that Rome manipulated
> Jesus' existence so create slaves, not create the entire story,
> otherwise my responses would have been different.

        Had you read the website more thoroughly you'd have seen my MANY
references to the fact that Jesus was a myth, in fact, Piso was so lazy that he
plagiarized about 90% of the Jesus myth from the 400 year OLDER Persian
religion of Mithraism.  Using the search engine on the index page, search
"Mithra" to see my many references to this ancient religion, AND be amazed at
how similar Mithra was to Jesus (virgin birth, born in a cave, three wise men,
and so on).  Although Piso did lift the storyline, he was absolutely impressive
in creating the THOUGHT VIRUS (meme) which lives on to this day, infecting
millions, and causing countless billions of dollars in lost revenues, and
unmeasurable costs in lost lives.  By lost lives, I mean those who "live for
god" or "live in celibacy for Jesus", foregoing the happiness they could have.

> Well, someday you
> will understand.

        I already understand.  You are not dealing with someone who is stupid,
my intelligence TOWERS over most people (SB IQ = 188).  In the business world,
people pay me 120 USD per hour for consulting, while I give the very _same_
quality of advice away for FREE on antichrist dot net, without acceptance!

> By the way, running this website will never give you
> any gratification,

        You are absolutely right.  A comforting lie is always more "warm and
fuzzy" than the cold hard truth!  However, unlike the weak and feeble, I don't
need a lie to be happy, I'm accepting of my fate, the fate of ALL people, and
willing to simply enjoy the brief existence that I have on this earth, come
what may.  I don't need to be fooled (or to fool myself) of a greater "reward"
AFTER this existence, this is all I have, all YOU have, and like it or not, you
know I'm telling you the truth.  So bury your head ever deeper in the sand,
plug your ears and yell LA LA LA to your hearts content.  ;o)

> because you cannot prove God and Jesus don't exist.
> I know I can't bring forth phyiscal proof that they do, so we're even.

        No, we are emphatically NOT even!  In every aspect of your life, save
for your religion, you accept the most _plausible_ explanation for that which
you don't fully understand.  ONLY in your religion do you swallow the
hyper-fantastic, something too unrealistic for any sane person EVER to believe
(things such as an ape-like god created the whole universe, yet nobody was
required to create that ape-like god).  Like it or not, you are NOT stupid, you
DO know that I am correct, and even tho you don't like the truth, I have
instilled that truth into your mind like a festering malignancy, eating away at
the Christ meme.  Within a year, maybe two, you too will be an atheist.

> But in the end, I'm sorry you will suffer a horrible fate unless you
> change somehow (but I don't see any signs of that anytime soon).

        Like Dr. Carl Sagan, I fully expect to die an atheist.  On his death
bed he wrote a book, The Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark
wherein he fortified his atheist beliefs in words, and shared them with the
world.  Unlike Charles Darwin, who recanted his atheism (and all that he had
discovered and learned throughout his life), converting to Christianity on his
death bed, Dr. Carl Sagan died with his eyes open wide; with TRUTH.  In his
book he clearly shows that the middle ages were not the ONLY time in our
history where people were influenced by myth and mysticism, we are as affected
by it today as we were then!  Finally, another book was finalized called
"Billions & Billions: Thoughts on Life and Death at the Brink of the
Millennium" where he frankly talks about his own losing battle with
myelodysplasia, the cancer that eventually took his life in December 1996. 
Here is a quote from "Billions and Billions".  "The world is so exquisite, with
so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with
pretty stories for which there's little good evidence.  Far better, it seems to
me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and to be grateful every
day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides."

> Well, my idea would have worked if you believed at least that Jesus
> was a real person. Well, guess I can't win every battle :o)

        All you Christians ever do is resort to one form of trickery or
another, to try and substantiate that which you KNOW deep inside, to be false.
I'm probably twice the atheist that Sagan was, you're not going to trick me.

        So have a nice life David, wallowing in your own self-deceit, afraid to
face the REAL world at face value.  Life is _supposed_ to be fired at us
point-blank, but you Christians hide in the corner, afraid to experience what
it feels like to REALLY BE ALIVE!  You know what David?  You don't need to fear
death, no not at all, because frankly, you are already dead.

James - The Unanointed

James-

I must have misjudged you. I assumed you would admit that Jesus was a
real man, and I just thought your idea was that Rome manipulated
Jesus' existence so create slaves, not create the entire story,
otherwise my responses would have been different. Well, someday you
will understand. By the way, running this website will never give you
any gratification, because you cannot prove God and Jesus don't exist.
I know I can't bring forth phyiscal proof that they do, so we're even.
But in the end, I'm sorry you will suffer a horrible fate unless you
change somehow (but I don't see any signs of that anytime soon).

Well, my idea would have worked if you believed at least that Jesus
was a real person. Well, guess I can't win every battle :o)

-David

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004, you wrote:
> James-
> 
> I have to say you are a tool. You are Satan's tool.

        Satan doesn't exist, and is as much a myth as Jesus or God!  In case you
missed it, the palace of gold and eternal bliss is the carrot on the stick, and
SATAN is the kick in the ass, to MAKE you follow the religion which was created
to instill cooperation and resigned acceptance in the mind of the slave.

> Even though you
> don't believe in him, he believes in you and thanks you for the
> support of his cause.

        There's a switch, most of you Christ puppets tell me that my father
Satan HATES me, and is going to torture me EXTRA SEVERE for believing in him,
and for helping him!  You're the first to counter those claims.  Like I said,
you're a Christian who is above average in intelligence, you SEE the failed
logic in a demon seeking help and offering only suffering in return.

        Were Satan real, he would probably be offering a BETTER deal to come
worship him, because that's the nature of business, of competition!

>> By lost lives, I mean those who "live for
>> god" or "live in celibacy for Jesus", foregoing the happiness they 
>> could have.
> 
> Well, I'm happy right now.

        No you're not, otherwise you'd have not ended up on MY WEBSITE!

> This is no thought virus.

        Religion is false, yet you believe it is true.  That is the absolute
_definition_ of a thought virus!

> You're living in
> a pointless existence where you move from point A to point B, blindly,

        Just as nature has intended.

> finding comfort only in refuting others' beliefs.

        Refuting belief is synonymous with telling the truth!  I can PROVE that
Science is more effective than religion, as the efficacy of prayer is no better
than correctly guessing a coin flip.  Faith is like luck, it's random chance,
sometimes you win, sometimes you LOSE!  Science on the other hand, has an
expected rate approaching BETTER than 50%!  If this wasn't true, we wouldn't
have so many hospitals, and instead would have more churches!  Even _most_
Christians will resort to Science when they become ill, perhaps even you?

> I know I'm right.
> I've seen things that science can't explain. It's clear what is real.

        No, you've seen things that _YOU_ can not explain.  Give ME a whack at
it (or try another myth-buster, the Amazing Randi).  So far, there has _never_
been any event which was beyond reasonable explanation using Science.

   Linkname: James Randi Educational Foundation
        URL: http://www.randi.org/

>> I already understand.  You are not dealing with someone who 
>> is stupid,
> 
> I am aware of your intelligence. I believe a year ago I talked to you.

        Ruh row (said in my best Scooby voice).  ;o)

> I am very impressed by your resume of knowledge, I just wish it was
> put to better use than try to slay Christianity.

        Until Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are dead, we will (1) never have
peace on earth, and (2) never leave the cradle of earth to live amongst the
stars!  You know this, and I know this.  THAT is why I seek to destroy the
Christ meme (the self-replicating idea) that perpetuates pseudoscience.

> Because you know you
> can't put a big enough dent in it to justify it.

        I'm doing my part to stop the spread of a disease, I have converted at
least a handful of people, but if I only saved ONE PERSON, that would have made
ALL of this worthwhile.  Talk to Gabriel, the soon to be 7th Apostle about how
much better HIS life has become as he changed from allowing Christianity to
dominate his life, to now allowing Science to dominate his life!

   Linkname: Posted for evaluation: Sun Feb 22 12:23:46 UTC 2004
        URL: http://www.antichrist.net/gabriel/

> Your reward will come James, for everything you've done so far.

        I receive my reward(s) here and now!  By the time you realize you were
wrong, your life will be over, and it will be TOO LATE!

> Last time I checked, the Big Bang theory was creating "something out
> of nothing".

        Oh, you mean the way GOD HIMSELF was created out of nothing?

> The chance that an organized, perfect world just
> "happened to happen", and that somehow "life just happened to exist"
> is quite mind-boggling.

        Want something even MORE mind boggling?  Visit this URL, then read the
text, see YOUR place in the Christian Universe!

   Linkname: Our place in the christian Universe.
        URL: http://www.antichrist.net/hubble.html

        Now as our ability to resolve images of deep space improves, the number
of galaxies that we find increases, the current technology estimates there are
400 billion galaxies in the universe (four times the number estimated just 10
years ago).  Each galaxy has several billion stars, each star has several
planets, and with those kind of odds, you find it strange that WE ARE HERE?

        Even with astronomical odds of winning the lottery, sometimes people
actually do win, just as sometimes life springs up on planets.  In fact, it can
be argued that life springing forth is actually MORE likely than winning the
lottery, thus given all the lottery winners, it's easy to estimate there are
billions of planets in the Universe with some form of life!

   Linkname: Origins of life (about mid-page).
        URL: http://www.antichrist.net/piso.html

> It's impossible for something to be created
> out of nothing, as the Big Bang suggests.

        Then how did the ape-like god create himself, and from what?  Remember,
God created man in his own image, thus God is an ape-like creature!  If God
didn't create himself, who or what created him (the obligatory Übergott)?

> So somehow, an outside force
> must have created it.

        Why do you people ALWAYS demand that things be created, can't they just
evolve through a process of natural selection, each replication better than the
one before it (due to the fact superior survives and inferior dies)?  Are you
people ALL of such a factory mindset that you can't see this?

> I see it like this: we live in somewhat of a
> computer, metaphorically speaking. We can't venture on the outside,
> and we only have what is inside with us. Outside is a completely
> different world...the one God is in. He lives on different rules, so
> you can't expect Him to be governed by our laws of matter and gravity
> and such. They just don't apply because He's on a different playing
> field.

        OK, then riddle me this Batman, who created God, and who created God's
creator?  Take that to a billion plus places and keep going.  :o)  The universe
we see is unmistakably the tactile, REAL universe we have!  All else is fantasy.

> Believe it or not, me talking to you only strengthens my faith. It
> makes me happy I wasn't born like you.

        Conversely, I am happy that I wasn't born like you!  ;o)  They say
ignorance is bliss, because the ignorant don't know the truth, and have
nothing to worry about until suddenly *BANG* life is fired point-blank at
them, and they have a serious injury, or die.  Lucky are those who don't dwell
on their own impending death, because they haven't the ability to reason.

>> world.  Unlike Charles Darwin, who recanted his atheism (and all that he had
>> discovered and learned throughout his life), converting to Christianity on his
>> death bed, Dr. Carl Sagan died with his eyes open wide; with TRUTH.  
> 
> I thought that Darwin did die as an atheist. I read that the stories
> of him recanting his beliefs were lies.

        I understand that he called for a priest and converted.  I may be
mistaken, and if you can clarify that for me, it will be MOST appreciated.  :o)

>>In his
>> book he clearly shows that the middle ages were not the ONLY time in our
>> history where people were influenced by myth and mysticism, we are as affected
>> by it today as we were then!
> 
> If Christianity is such a flat-out lie, why hasn't it died out along
> with the Greek, Norse, Egyptian, and Roman gods?

        I think because those gods didn't have such a powerful enforcement
clause (both reward AND punishment).  If someone offers you candy, you may say
no thank you and be on your way.  If someone offers you candy and says "take it
or I'll stab your eyes out with this screwdriver", well then, I believe
compliance is significantly improved!  The aforementioned gods failed to have an
enforcement clause (Satan) to maintain the survival of the respective memes.

        It's good to see you questioning this, it proves that you will
eventually become atheist.  When you do, send me your story.  :o)

>> pretty stories for which there's little good evidence.  Far better, it seems to
>> me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and to be grateful every
>> day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides."
> 
> That is exactly what Christianity is. Every day I go outside and enjoy
> God's creation. Being a Christian really makes every day worthwhile.

        I do the same thing, I look up into the stars in wonder, and find peace
in and amongst nature.  But how can this be so, for I am a dreaded atheist?

> Every day is an opportunity to live, and meet new people and
> experience new experiences. Christianity doesn't hold me back from
> anything, in fact, it drives me to get the most out of my life.

        Why?  This life is for suffering, it is the NEXT life where you really
get down and party!  So why not take yourself out of this one NOW?  Point after
point, I see evidence that you are on the cusp of becoming ATHEIST!  :o)

> Sure,
> it says I shouldn't sin, but who would want to sin anyways? Sin like
> murder, adultery, dishonesty, selfish desires, lust, and greed are all
> self-destructive paths in life.

        I don't sin.  I won't say that I haven't, because I have, and a bunch,
but I try hard not to (because in the end comes the misery).  I am monogamous,
faithful, and fearful of disease (probably the REAL reason the bible teaches
monogamy).  I analyze everything I am about to do, every action I take, to see
if there will be unwanted consequences down the road, and avoid them.

> The Bible cautions us to steer clear
> of them, and it's a reminder to keep a healthy lifestyle, so I can get
> the most out of life.

        In that aspect, it's a useful tool, but nowhere does it talk about
washing your hands (the best way to avoid the spread of disease).  In that
sense, it was nothing more than an early version of the Merck Manual, which is
the bible I hold dear.  The Merck Manual, if you've never read it, is worth the
20 dollars or so it costs for the hard bound (sold at cost of printing).

>>        All you Christians ever do is resort to one form of trickery or
>> another, to try and substantiate that which you KNOW deep inside, to be false.
>> I'm probably twice the atheist that Sagan was, you're not going to trick me.
> 
> I am aware I can never sway you from your beliefs. You are too
> dead-set in them. I'm just showing you mine, not trying to get you to
> abandon yours.

        I only follow the truth.  Show me reproducible evidence to the
contrary, and I will gladly follow your lead.  Like any _true_ Scientist,
that's all we ask, PROVE the efficacy of gods and devils, and we will believe
in them, otherwise they are just bullsh*t, and a waste of our time.

>> face the REAL world at face value.  Life is _supposed_ to be fired at us
>> point-blank, but you Christians hide in the corner, afraid to experience what
>> it feels like to REALLY BE ALIVE!  You know what David?  You don't need to fear
>> death, no not at all, because frankly, you are already dead.
> 
> What defines "REALLY BE ALIVE!" ??? From where I'm standing, my life
> is fine and I'm enjoying it 100%. Nothing you can say will put any
> sort of dent in me and I appreciate you trying.

        Talk to Gabriel about how much HIS life has improved from the moment he
stopped praying, and stopped believing in gods and devils, and immersed
himself deep into the study of Science.  He has been on both sides of this
issue, and can be your best hope for a happier tomorrow.

James - improving the human condition, one customer at a time.

James-

I have to say you are a tool. You are Satan's tool. Even though you
don't believe in him, he believes in you and thanks you for the
support of his cause.

>Although Piso did lift the storyline, he was absolutely impressive
> in creating the THOUGHT VIRUS (meme) which lives on to this 
> day, infecting
> millions, and causing countless billions of dollars in lost revenues, 
> and
> unmeasurable costs in lost lives.  By lost lives, I mean those 
> who "live for
> god" or "live in celibacy for Jesus", foregoing the happiness they 
> could have.

Well, I'm happy right now. This is no thought virus. You're living in
a pointless existence where you move from point A to point B, blindly,
finding comfort only in refuting others' beliefs. I know I'm right.
I've seen things that science can't explain. It's clear what is real.

> I already understand.  You are not dealing with someone who 
> is stupid,
> my intelligence TOWERS over most people (SB IQ = 188).  In the 
> business world,
> people pay me 120 USD per hour for consulting, while I give the 
> very _same_
> quality of advice away for FREE on antichrist dot net, without 
> acceptance! 

I am aware of your intelligence. I believe a year ago I talked to you.
I am very impressed by your resume of knowledge, I just wish it was
put to better use than try to slay Christianity. Because you know you
can't put a big enough dent in it to justify it.

> You are absolutely right.  A comforting lie is always 
> more "warm and
> fuzzy" than the cold hard truth!  However, unlike the weak and 
> feeble, I don't
> need a lie to be happy, I'm accepting of my fate, the fate of ALL 
> people, and
> willing to simply enjoy the brief existence that I have on this earth, 
> come
> what may.  I don't need to be fooled (or to fool myself) of a 
> greater "reward"
> AFTER this existence, this is all I have, all YOU have, and like it or 
> not, you
> know I'm telling you the truth.  So bury your head ever deeper in the 
> sand,
> plug your ears and yell LA LA LA to your hearts content.  ;o)

Your reward will come James, for everything you've done so far.

>        No, we are emphatically NOT even!  In every aspect of your life, save
> for your religion, you accept the most _plausible_ explanation for that which
> you don't fully understand.  ONLY in your religion do you swallow the
> hyper-fantastic, something too unrealistic for any sane person EVER to believe
> (things such as an ape-like god created the whole universe, yet nobody was
> required to create that ape-like god).  Like it or not, you are NOT stupid, you
> DO know that I am correct, and even tho you don't like the truth, I have
> instilled that truth into your mind like a festering malignancy, eating away at
> the Christ meme.  Within a year, maybe two, you too will be an atheist.
> 

Last time I checked, the Big Bang theory was creating "something out
of nothing". The chance that an organized, perfect world just
"happened to happen", and that somehow "life just happened to exist"
is quite mind-boggling. It's impossible for something to be created
out of nothing, as the Big Bang suggests. So somehow, an outside force
must have created it. I see it like this: we live in somewhat of a
computer, metaphorically speaking. We can't venture on the outside,
and we only have what is inside with us. Outside is a completely
different world...the one God is in. He lives on different rules, so
you can't expect Him to be governed by our laws of matter and gravity
and such. They just don't apply because He's on a different playing
field.

Believe it or not, me talking to you only strengthens my faith. It
makes me happy I wasn't born like you.

>        Like Dr. Carl Sagan, I fully expect to die an atheist.  On his death
> bed he wrote a book, The Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark
> wherein he fortified his atheist beliefs in words, and shared them with the
> world.  Unlike Charles Darwin, who recanted his atheism (and all that he had
> discovered and learned throughout his life), converting to Christianity on his
> death bed, Dr. Carl Sagan died with his eyes open wide; with TRUTH.  

I thought that Darwin did die as an atheist. I read that the stories
of him recanting his beliefs were lies.

>In his
> book he clearly shows that the middle ages were not the ONLY time in our
> history where people were influenced by myth and mysticism, we are as affected
> by it today as we were then!

If Christianity is such a flat-out lie, why hasn't it died out along
with the Greek, Norse, Egyptian, and Roman gods?

>  Finally, another book was finalized called
> "Billions & Billions: Thoughts on Life and Death at the Brink of the
> Millennium" where he frankly talks about his own losing battle with
> myelodysplasia, the cancer that eventually took his life in December 1996.
> Here is a quote from "Billions and Billions".  "The world is so exquisite, with
> so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with
> pretty stories for which there's little good evidence.  Far better, it seems to
> me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and to be grateful every
> day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides."

That is exactly what Christianity is. Every day I go outside and enjoy
God's creation. Being a Christian really makes every day worthwhile.
Every day is an opportunity to live, and meet new people and
experience new experiences. Christianity doesn't hold me back from
anything, in fact, it drives me to get the most out of my life. Sure,
it says I shouldn't sin, but who would want to sin anyways? Sin like
murder, adultery, dishonesty, selfish desires, lust, and greed are all
self-destructive paths in life. The Bible cautions us to steer clear
of them, and it's a reminder to keep a healthy lifestyle, so I can get
the most out of life.


>        All you Christians ever do is resort to one form of trickery or
> another, to try and substantiate that which you KNOW deep inside, to be false.
> I'm probably twice the atheist that Sagan was, you're not going to trick me.

I am aware I can never sway you from your beliefs. You are too
dead-set in them. I'm just showing you mine, not trying to get you to
abandon yours.

> 
>        So have a nice life David, wallowing in your own self-deceit, afraid to
> face the REAL world at face value.  Life is _supposed_ to be fired at us
> point-blank, but you Christians hide in the corner, afraid to experience what
> it feels like to REALLY BE ALIVE!  You know what David?  You don't need to fear
> death, no not at all, because frankly, you are already dead.
> 

What defines "REALLY BE ALIVE!" ??? From where I'm standing, my life
is fine and I'm enjoying it 100%. Nothing you can say will put any
sort of dent in me and I appreciate you trying.

-David

Hi James, David

The move from Christianity is at first quite hard especially if you have
lived with it for a quarter of a century in your life. The emotional drain
that first month was quite horrendous because I felt as though I betrayed my
family which had a very long history of theism going back hundreds of years.
My mother has a family bible from 1820 given to her by her father which in
turn was given to him by his father ETC... I must admit that telling the
rest of my family that I was an atheist was also one of the hardest things
I ever did but it was just one of those things that had to be done and was
unavoidable due to the stress it caused me to keep it all bottled up. My
parents took the blow quietly and was quite dignified with this sudden
development even though according to their beliefs I was going to hell when
I die. My older brother on the other hand didn't take it as quietly as my
folks and he tried to preach to me because he thought that I was playing a
huge joke on all of them and even now there is still an air of animosity
between the two of us. I will not try to convert my parents to atheism
because at this moment my mother is an invalid. Crippled by Multiple
Sclerosis she has lost by my estimate about 90% of her motor functions in
the past fourteen years since she was diagnosed with the disease. The only
thing that keeps her going is her belief in a miracle from god but I know
just like any logical person would that if it would ever forthcoming it will
only be through medical science and medical science alone. That is also the
reason why I hate your current president. It is because of him that stem
cell research has been crippled in the US and with it almost any hope of at
least giving my mother her ability to walk back. This was all because of the
warmonger's christian beliefs and convictions. But I just hope that
president Kerry will sort out this mess that his incompetent predecessor
left behind.

The contrast between the two [REMOVED] brothers are quite striking and I
will provide you with a small summery of myself and my brother:

Pieter [REMOVED]:

He does not own a computer and he has turned my offer to provide him with
one down

He does not have a job

He has no marketable job skills

He spends at least 6+ hours a day in front of the television set watching
god TV every day of his life.

He does nothing to help my mother because he blames her for not being able
to get a job even though  he is 29 years old.

He plans to leach the very lifeblood from my parents by living with them
until they cannot support him anymore after which he will most likely try
and come and live with me which is something which I cannot allow. He is by
definition a parasite.

Before he became a hard core christ puppet he used to listen to heavy metal
just like myself. But on a fateful day and I do mean in the space of a
single day when he was in the tenth grade he suddenly destroyed my entire
heavy metal cd collection without warning or any apologies of any kind
simply citing that they were satanistic and had to be destroyed. At that
time because my parents supported him in this action there was nothing that
I could do to claim damages from the bastard. He did it again later but at
least I had the equipment to put it all into Mp3 format this time around
but I am still pissed of with him and his random outbursts of so called
divine
righteousness. I also warned him that if he touches my computer equipment I
will lay a formal complaint with the police and have him arrested for
destruction
of property.

He goes on "pilgrimages"  to a so called "prophet "on my parents expense
every two weeks just so that he could witness a carefully staged "miracle"
or two.
This prophet is located about 300Km away from where I live at a place called
"Lof Dal ministries"

He speaks out loudly to "voices" he hears in his head every so often
believing it to be god.

Fears that he may end up in hell even though he believes that his god will
look after him when my parent finally kick him out of the house.

Believes that misfortune is caused by sin and evil spirits. He also believes
me to be demon possessed.

Gabriel [REMOVED]:

I have five computers and numerous notebooks.

I have a well equipped self funded workshop outside of the house.

I own more than fifty lasers which includes a brand new 70mW DPSSD laser
that I just purchased, three large frame HeNe lasers, numerous laser diodes
and
of course my self constructed Co2 laser which is in the process of being
rebuilt since that fateful plasma tube implosion which was luckily contained
by the Perspex water jacket.

Owns 124 meteorite specimens of at least twenty different types including a
LL6-7 impact melt with vesicles and a LL3 which are both very rare and
beautiful.

I have a new steady job and I am going to move out of my parents house this
coming February because my moral convictions are forcing me to not be a
burden on my parents
anymore. It will be tough but it also will be exiting.

Bought my own car while my brothers was given to him by my parents.

I have no fear of hell or heaven since these are merely symbolic and
mythical concepts dreamt up in the minds of humans. One thing I do fear are
the negroes who prowl our streets for a ripe victim to rob or rape. I also
fear the negroes who frequent our roads with their tribal driving ways.

These are only a few of the differences between me and my brother. Who has
the better life? The christ puppet who believes that his god will care for
him or the atheist who to put it a little crass and straight to the point
just say: "F*ck god, I will do or get it for myself "and "I don't need a
evil god to obtain what I can get through science or hard work". To
rely on others to get what you need is a fallacy and it has become one of my
core sayings and philosophies which I practice in everyday life.

>> Every day is an opportunity to live, and meet new people and
>> experience new experiences. Christianity doesn't hold me back from
>> anything, in fact, it drives me to get the most out of my life.

>Why?  This life is for suffering, it is the NEXT life where you really
>get down and party!  So why not take yourself out of this one NOW?  Point
>after point, I see evidence that you are on the cusp of becoming ATHEIST!

Christianity is just about as much aid to your intellect and ability to
reason as a 50kg anvil is to your swimming ability. The only logical option
is to reject religion as it delivers no abject proof of its validity.

>> Sure,
>> it says I shouldn't sin, but who would want to sin anyways? Sin like
>> murder, adultery, dishonesty, selfish desires, lust, and greed are all
>> self-destructive paths in life.

>I don't sin.  I won't say that I haven't, because I have, and a bunch,
>but I try hard not to (because in the end comes the misery).  I am
>monogamous, faithful, and fearful of disease (probably the REAL reason the
>bible teaches monogamy).  I analyze everything I am about to do, every
action I take, to
>see if there will be unwanted consequences down the road, and avoid them.

It is funny that sin of greed was mentioned as I think that all christians
commit it every day of their lives by believing in maximum return for
minimal effort and trouble. All a christian needs is to have faith in some
mythical deity and he will spend an eternity in heaven with the said deity.
If this isn't greed by definition then I don't know what is. Murder is also
commited in the name of god every day as it was for thousands of years and
if the religious memes are not eradicated it will be the status quo for
perhaps thousands of years more. As an atheist I am also very careful as not
to do anything that could endanger my or someone elses life. I take every
safeguard against being hurt or killed whether it may be on the streets or
in my car and trust me when I say that in this country death can be mere
moments away at any time of the day. To survive anything that you do, it
must be analysed logically to see the consequences of your deed and if it
will have a negative impact on you or someone else.

>> Believe it or not, me talking to you only strengthens my faith. It
>> makes me happy I wasn't born like you.

>Conversely, I am happy that I wasn't born like you!  ;o)  They say
>ignorance is bliss, because the ignorant don't know the truth, and have
>nothing to worry about until suddenly *BANG* life is fired point-blank at
>them, and they have a serious injury, or die.  Lucky are those who don't
>dwell on their own impending death, because they haven't the ability to
>reason.

Ignorance may be bliss but like they say: "What you don't know can certianly
hurt you". For this reason I have made peace with my impending doom and
oblivion.

>> What defines "REALLY BE ALIVE!" ??? From where I'm standing, my life
>> is fine and I'm enjoying it 100%. Nothing you can say will put any
>> sort of dent in me and I appreciate you trying.

>Talk to Gabriel about how much HIS life has improved from the moment he
>stopped praying, and stopped believing in gods and devils, and immersed
>himself deep into the study of Science.  He has been on both sides of this
>issue, and can be your best hope for a happier tomorrow.

The world hold so much wonder to be discovered and my only regret is that I
will never be able to experience it all with this short lifespan that we
humans possess. It is just like James said, you only get one life and then
that is it.The only question is how are you going to spend it? Are you going
to spend it believing in something impossible or are you going to spend it
in pursuit of finding the truth behind this magnificent universe we have
come to evolve in? I have made my choice and nobody, not even my parents or
my brother can persuade me to think otherwise as I do not recognize them as
my peers or intellectual equals. I have come to trust the opinions of people
of equal or higher IQ levels exclusively because I know that they and not
the week minded fools that make up the majority of our population are the
ones with the real answers.

What James said about IQ levels and what it reflects in the behavior of an
person while he is still an adolescent is true because when I was still in
grade school I didn't watch children's programming but I read books about
minerals, nature and automobiles while my class mates watched Sesame Street
and talked about it the next day. My mother told me when I was four years
old I could give her the name of any car she pointed out to me. My science
teachers was especially unhappy with me when I corrected them when they made
an mistake when they described something about electricity, nuclear energy
and light. In grade 11 I drew a hydrogen bomb schematic on the black board
just to prove a point to the teacher that what he taught us was wrong and
that he only knew what was written in the textbook and nothing more. He was
also a christian who tried to evangelize to us at every opportunity he got
and if I knew then what I know now I would have told him straight to shove
it up his rectum and leave me and my constitutional right to not practice
religion alone.

This is all I have time for now I am afraid so until next time.

Goodbye and have a prosperous day.

Gabriel - 7th apostle of the Antichrist Atheist Network (AAN for short) :o)

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004, you wrote:
> Hey James-

        Hi David, and yes you ARE famous, and will be read by thousands who
will see your words, and then my words, and draw their own conclusions.  :o)
Since you _are_ demonstrably an intelligent person, what conclusions do you
think those will be?  :o)  For that, I do thank you for contributing.  :o)

        Unlike every Christian website I've seen, I do not presume my audience
to be stupid, and show only a one-sided argument.  I give them the WHOLE story,
and leave it up to THEM to conclude, one way or the other, for themselves!

> Just want to say it's been interesting talking to you. I bid thee
> adieu and have a good life.

        Same here, because I know without any doubts, as you grow older, wiser,
and more mature, someday you too will become atheist.  Please remember me, and
contact me when that time comes, OK?  :o)  Remember, there's nothing wrong with
being an atheist, MOST of the greatest people on earth, those who contributed
to the BETTERMENT of our society, Scientists, writers, and inventors were all
Atheists, while conversely, ALL of the _despots_ believed in God(s)!  Hitler, a
Christian, said he was the right hand of God, and I won't even mention GW Bush!

"I don't believe in God.  My God is patriotism.  Teach a man to be a good
citizen and you have solved the problem of life."   -- Andrew Carnegie,
Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist (1835-1919)

> Just one more thing...you say you live
> virtually a "sin-free life". Then you are pretty much living the
> Christian life, except for one thing...admitting God and Jesus exist.
> So becoming a Christian wouldn't completely change your life (except
> maybe your site, lol).

        Like the Christian, and UNLIKE most Atheists, I do practice memetics,
so yes you are right, I am very much like a typical Christian.  Most Atheists
don't spread the idea of Atheism, they keep their opinions to themselves, while
_all_ "good Christians" will spread the word of Christ.  But "make no mistake",
not all Christians are Christ-like.  GW Bush is a Christian, who claims "God"
speaks directly to him (hears voices in his head, and has been placed on
psychotropic drugs) and I'll allow you to decide if HE is Christ-like.  Since I
contribute the bulk of my time and money to worthy causes (improving the human
condition, this website is an example of that) I can be, and have been called
"Christ-like" but it is few and far between amongst the Christians to find
anyone who is _truly_ altruistic, without the "getting into heaven" thing.

        To put it in simpler terms, in your mind, I'm going to burn in hell for
all eternity, even tho I work to improve the lives of the blind (people that
your so-called "God" could not even cure).  Bio-electronic implants will one day
CURE the blind, we're already able to cure RP in some patients using an
electronic "chip" implanted on the optic nerve in the eye.  Why is it your "God"
was unable (or unwilling) to do this?  This question has been asked before.

> But anyways, have a good time on our short
> visit to earth. Peace out.

        Just remember that, our lives are fragile, and our time, short.  Do
what you can to leave this world a better place than it was when you came into
it, and you will have achieved much!

"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is
the parts that I do understand."  -- Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American
author and humorist (1835-1910)

James - First Apostle to the Antichrist

Hey James-

Just want to say it's been interesting talking to you. I bid thee
adieu and have a good life. Just one more thing...you say you live
virtually a "sin-free life". Then you are pretty much living the
Christian life, except for one thing...admitting God and Jesus exist.
So becoming a Christian wouldn't completely change your life (except
maybe your site, lol). But anyways, have a good time on our short
visit to earth. Peace out.

-David